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An Conversation with Tom Matano


Tom Matano is the lead designer for Mazda. He is better know as the
father of the Miata, and is very friendly to enthusiasts. I have met
several times before, but this is the first time I actually sat down
with him to ask him questions about Mazda, the RX-8, and other 'stuff'
in general. The format of this interview is more of a conversation
than a formal interview (I'm in bold, he's regular font). Sit back and
enjoy.


Dan: Thanks for meeting with me
today.


Tom: Thank you,
and will you be doing another RX-7 Event this year?


D: Yes, Berny and I are planning
Sevenstock 5 now. We are going to have a two day event, a show and
shine like last year, and then a track day. We are hopeful that we
can get this all ready in time! With the second day being a track day,
we should be able to pull more people out... which will be amazing
since last years blew past all expetations. We are also trying to
get another track day up at Laguna, Berny is talking with Aaron T. for
that one. We will also try to involve other people within Mazda,
maybe Jim Jordan [from the western region]...


We have a bunch of
good people in Mazda, Jim, Kelvin, they are all really good in
Irvine.


Yes, Kelvin is the one who sent me
to Detroit, but he got to go to the Tokyo Auto Saloon... while I'm
freezing up here in Detroit! But, when you see Kelvin next, give him a big
"*Thanks*!!" from me.

So, what is happening within Mazda
and "Miata-land?"


Well, its like
always... With me, the program never stops and starts, it is always
going. Although within Mazda there are official iterations of the
Miata. That is the kind of car that you can't stop working on. You
keep trying and trying to improve it. We like to do things simple,
pick them off the shelf.



The main interest
is always not a question of what price range it should go to or what
size, but we try to maintain the position in the market, because no
one else can come in for the price we offer, for what we offer with
the Miata. For that size, for that kind of handling, we shoot to
maintain in that sort of position. Everybody tried, but they always
end up more expensive, and more complex... Up the price range
significantly. We do try some things with the drive train to keep
competitive, but we are still the best in the class.


The Miata was never conceived as a
rotary sports car right?



It is funny, when
the Miata was first being developed, the FD RX-7 was being developed,
and the FC was still going strong. So with the first generation
Miata, they told the engineers, design the car so a rotary can't be
put in there, no matter what. No way did they want the rotary in
the Miata to compete with the RX-7. And sure engough, the day after
it was released, someone figured out how to put a rotary in there.
So, there you have it.


Do you think the 3rd gen
Miata will be based on the RX-8 platform, or designed in such a way
to offer a rotary as an engine option?



Well,
we don't know that the RX-8 platform would be suitable for the Miata.
It would have to shrink a lot. So when you go with the RX-8, can you
retain the body performance and handling if you shrink it down.
Would it handle the modifications to handle the convertible?



So,
we have to re-examine what makes the Miata great, and see how we can
get there, and better, again.


What about the performance series,
MPS or Mazdaspeed programs with the Miata? Do you have any
involvement in that?


No, not really.


Well, do you know anything about the
MPS Miata that was shown in Japan? The Red/Orange one? Would it come
to the US?


Well... that car
isn't exactly legal for the street in the US. The headlights need to
be pushed back, and emissions need to be tested on a mass scale. But
we are working on the engine enhancements, as always. But I think we
reached an end, you can't really push the engine further than it has
without turbos or superchargers. So the only way to go in the future
is to go Turbo charging ...


Or Rotary?

Or rotary...


And about the rotary in the current
Miata?


Well, have you
ever driven a rotary Miata?!


Nope, can't say I've ever had the
pleasure!


Well, it is very
similar to the Peter Ferrell 3 rotor RX-7, the first ones he did. Too
much power, and handling is quirky.


So it didn't steer quite right,
because of a relocated steering rack?


Yes, although on
the later models, [Peter] pushed the engine back and relocated the
transmission, modified the firewall. Many of the problems were solved
with this.


So, with that, will there ever be a
Mazda production 3 rotor in the states? Either a 3rotor RENESIS, or
the one that was in the Cosmo?



Well,
you know, you can pass one or two cars through emissions, or safety,
but when you are going it with a mass produced car, it is a
completely different story! When you are talking about thousands of
cars, you run into problems of consistency, and it is very had to get
the 3 rotor tuned right, for mass production.



And how much would
they pay for a 3 rotor? And how many would we really sell. I do hear
talk about the 3 rotor a lot, but they don't realize how expensive it
really is.



What about bringing the 3rd
gen back in the states?
Well, the problem
with the RX-7 now is we would have to restripe the floor for an
additional canister, either back by the fuel tank, or up to the
engine, this is not a small task, and with the volume of only a few
hundred cars a month, it isn't worth the investment. Besides, the
current RX-7 is scheduled to be discontinued this next summer [2002].


Are there any replacements slated to
come out after that?


Well, with the
RX-8 coming out, we have to see that it is indeed one market, and the
RX-7 is a different market. The RX-8 has to be successful in its own
right, and then we'll see what happens. But take a look at your own
survey on your website, and you can see that the RX-8 is not a
replacement for the RX-7. There are people out there that are like
"No way is it a replacement for the RX-7." So I don't
think having a 2 seater will eat up the other market. So once the
RX-8 has the new category, and has defined to, sure, it will be time
to introduce a two seater. So hopefully the sooner we get [the
RX-8] established, we can bring the RX-7 back.


Speaking of other markets to be
established, yesterday I read a report that Ford/Mazda won't have a
replacement for the Ranger/B series truck until 2006, this is all
fine and dandy, but there is a market that I think is missing that of
the sup-compact truck, like the Courier/REPU in the past. In fact, I
recently bought a 74 REPU, since there wasn't anything in the market
like it today. What do you think about this idea?


You
know, every once in a while, I get a letter, or a comment about
bringing back the REPU, or a rotary truck.



Why don't we just
chop the back off the RX-8, there you go! Or even, 2nd
gens are selling fairly cheap now, why don't you just rebody them!



You know, at the
time, none of the trucks had performance, but that one did. It is a
different story now. Besides, there are many things on the market
now, the crossovers, that have the cargo capacity that the small
trucks had.



What about the relationship with
Ford, would something like that be feasible again, research and
design of the mini-truck? Would Ford allow Mazda to build it?


Well, it isn't as bad as it used to be... But Budget, you know, they
have this amount of money, where are they going to spend it? And with
the overall economy slumping, they might be able to take one of our
platforms, rework the body, and sell it. But in terms of building a
new platform, it would be like 'hey daddy, hey daddy, see what we
built, you should use this!'




So, even though Ford is hurting for new products, they might
not take suggestions? They would seek them, even in economic hard
times for the company. It is kind of fun, one thing I've noticed over
the years, is in economic down turns, Mazda goes into the black, and
does fairly well, but in the good times, they seem to struggle. I
mean, during the whole dot com boom of the late 90's, Mazda didn't
have its flagship on the shores. There was no new RX-7 for the
dot-com-ers to buy... they had to buy used 94-95's, or try to go
through the hoops of importing them.



Yah, it seems
Mazda couldn't catch the good wave.



Did you know the founder and other
workers at Napster had an RX-7? I think three in fact, and there are
pictures of them sitting in a living room in Silicon Valley?


Well, I think Bill Gates owned an RX-7, and some of the guys as SGI
did too, the early 93's some of the first ones... But they had sooo
much trouble with them, they sold them for Jaguars! It was really too
bad. The RX-8 should be much better, more reliable.



Mazda learned the lesson with the
3rd gen?


Oh yes.



You know, I'm looking at this list
of questions send in...


Yes, we should
probably go over these.


Well, I think we have done a good
job so far. One of the things I see we haven't covered is the
Protege. The MP3 was a big hit within the RX-7 community. Will
there be future projects like that? What about engine enhancements,
or swapping in another engine?


Well, we want to
make sure the Protege has more power. But I don't think we would put
a different engine in there.



Have you taken a look around the
show at all?


Yes..


Did you take a look at that Dodge Razor, or that Pontiac 2
seater? Those cars are supposed to be little powerful sports cars, do
you think the next RX-7 could or would be anything like
those...


Well, it is ok to
dream.. and keep dreaming! I don't think they could do something like
that for $14,000 had have it be worth anything. They have to have it
based on something, and those companies don't have it. There
haven't been any designs, or decided on what is to be done with the
RX-7 yet. So keep dreaming.


What about the appearance that Mazda
got away from the 'fun to drive' or 'driver oriented' cars. Do you
think they are back now?


Yes, now it is a
global message. With that Zoom Zoom campaign not just in the US now,
but in Europe and just introduced in Japan, we have a global identity
now. Did you know in Japanese, there isn't a translation for "Zoom
Zoom" .. It is just Zoom Zoom, well , more like Zuum Zuum! It is
fairly universal. So, it is now globally consolidated. Before,
Mazda was seen as an economy brand in Japan, not the performance or
fun to drive, even though the RX-7 owners and Miata owners knew so.
This is changing now, and we have this enthusiast's message to deliver
with the cars.



Do you think that message will go
over well with the Japanese, and their culture?


Yes, because you
know that in the US, Mazda is more performance oriented, but in
Japan, they look for value. Here, a lot more people already know that
we are a sports car company.



Well, at the Tokyo
Autoshow, where we first introduced the Zoom Zoom theme, everybody
started bobbing their heads, moving, and sort of dancing to it.



So it was a hit?


Yep.


Where does the Renesis fit in to
this? Do you think this sports car engine will only be for one or two
cars, or do you think it could be used for all the cars?


Well, one thing we
have to keep in mind is $30,000. I think that is a barrier that we
don't want to cross.



Well, that is interesting, I see a
lot of comparisons between Mazda and BMW... not that it is a bad
thing to be compared against them, but Mazda is performance, while
BMW is luxury.



Well, 25 years
ago, BMW was a funky little car company from Germany. They had those
small little cars, that won a lot of races. The really weren't much
of a luxury maker at all. It took them 25 years to develop into what
they are today. That doesn't mean Mazda needs to be luxury, but ...


Has anything been done with Hydrogen
lately?


Not really. You
know, we've been keeping tabs of it. That whole thing is a
consortium now, so we are all sharing technology. There are some
serious problems to figure out, like distribution, fuel cells, or
storage tanks. It looks like ths fuel cells will be the way to go.


However, if these
problems were solved tomorrow, we would be ready to go very very soon
with the rotary hydrogen. All the work has been done, and hydrogen is
perfect for the rotary combustion chamber. We are ready for hydrogen,
but the rest of the distribution, is not.
You know, there
was a hydrogen powered Miata with a rotary that we built. I sear, if
you close your eyes, it felt like you were driving a 1st
gen rx-7. It was that good.



Well, looks like we are out of time.
Thank you very much, I will relay this all to the online community.


Thanks Dan, and
I'll see you at the next Sevenstock!