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Rumors for Tokyo
Submitted by SuperUser on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 9:55am

As time approaches for the 2003 Tokyo Autoshow, the rumors that circulate around go up by a factor of a thousand. With about a month to go before the Media Days of this years autoshow, we'd like to share with you, and rate the rumors we've come across out of a scale of 1 to 5. There are the rumors we've heard since this site opened, the return of the RX-7, and rumors that have recently come to light.


New 4th gen RX-7 The chances of a new RX-7 appearing this year are low. we are aware that there have been many "spy shots" and sketches that have flown around the Internet 20 times, but none are the read deal. From our conversations with Mazda folks at autoshows earlier this year, the RX-7 won't make a debut until after the RX-8 has made its place in the market... Question is: has that happened yet?


Return of the RX-3 We know Mazda is attacking the sport compact scene, and the RX-3 could be their latest weapon to fill the missing RWD sport compact sedan segment. But, will a small, inexpensive rotary powered car appear at Tokyo?




Rotary Powered Hybrid Micro Car Other Japanese automakers have had hybrid technology on the streets for a few years now. It is rumored that Mazda will enter the gas/electric hybrid with rotary power! We imagine a smaller rotary, maybe based on the dimensions of the 10a, or maybe a single rotor based on the dual rotor 13b renesis. Can Mazda make a rotary/electric hybrid combo work well?




Forced Induction Talking to engineers in the business of adding boost to engines, they claim the hydraulic supercharger idea was currently too new to use on production cars. Other news sources claimed the RENESIS would be boosted with such a setup. This seems not to be the case now. Rumors do point to an Intercooled/Supercharger setup for the RENESIS and the RX-8 in the future. It is unclear if Mazda will return to the exhaust driven turbo charger setup for the RENESIS. Have they solved the heat issues?


Hydrogen Powered RX-8 This will be there. In a talk earlier this summer, Lewis Booth told the press there would be a dual Gas/H2 powered rotary at this years Tokyo Autoshow. We will know more of technology when they debut it at the show.


Update: Well, the Hydrogen Rotary RX-8 was there.. and it was a HYBRID! The next Tokyo Auto show will be in October 2005 (October 2004 is Tokyo Commercial Truck Show) Watch for our coverage of what to expect in 2005.. Here's a hint.. The RX-3's chances will go up

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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Hmmm I don't quite know how do read this. By giving the RX-3 and the RX-7 the same ranking, are you saying that a new RX-3 is as likely as another RX-7 or that a new RX-7 is as unlikely as a new RX-3?
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
The both have a 2 in 5 chance of appearing at Tokyo... or 40%
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subject:
Rotary ANYthing
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I'll take a rotary anything at this point, but I can't see an RX-3, RX-7, or Turbo RENESIS being a smart move at this point. RX-3 would take business from the Protege, RX-7 prototype could hurt RX-8 sales ("I'll wait for that!"), and a Turbo RENESIS is a bad idea this early in it's life.

Wait for the RENESIS to live down some of the "grenade" reputation earned by the FD before turning it into another potential grenade in the eyes of the public ("Didn't their last turbo rotary blow up all the time? I think I'll skip that and get a turbo Z"...) Then, after the RENESIS has proven itself to be more bulletproof than the 12A, boost the sh*t out of it and go for the 959's balls!
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subject:
Show THIS
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
The REAL winner for Mazda would be show a near-production 200+ hp Rotary Miata (RX-5?). Rotary fanatics woudn't be embarassed to say they've driven one anymore, and Miata nuts might finally sell that 1990 and buy a new one. Nobody would argue that the Miata COULDN'T use the extra horses..

Then release it at the BEGINNING of next Summer, and watch them fly off the showroom floor. (Yes, it was not smart to wait until JULY to start selling the '8, IMHO.)
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subject:
RX7 turbos blow up!
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
What a tosser! "The turbo rotary blew up all the time"...talking out your arse dude. Here in Australia the series 6 Rx7 (third gen) won the 12 hour endurance race against porshe 4 times in a row (4 years running) at full race pace. That says it all in my books. To not turbo a rotary is stupid in my books as they go hand in hand so well. Even the series 4 (second gen) turbo RX7 would do around 200,000 km before expiring (daily driven). The lack of torque down low naturally aspirated for a rotary is the real problem with the engine especially if the car is heavy. Turboing the rotary engine removes that issue and supplies plenty of torque down low. I run a 13B turbo in a series 2 (first gen) RX7 and only run 5 psi and do flat 14 second 1/4. Beats the 16.3 1/4's I used to do in stock 13B and you dont have to rev its nut off to do it!
Mazda do the RX3. Make it light, make it handle and use the same engine as the RX8! If your going to do it you must aim for the WRX market or forget it. Suburb sell every WRX they import into this country, so you know us rev heads want it. We are all buying grey imports at the moment because you offer no performance. People are spending $30,000 to $50,000 on secondhand Nissans for crying out loud. How much more proof do you want that there is a market for this type of car! Please make me sell my RX7 1982 model 13B turbo car! You offer the RX8 for $55,000. Out of my league! Offer a RX3 for $30,000-$40,000 and now we are talking!
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
An RX-3 would be very, very welcome for me, and it would be a car I would buy over any other even at a higher price let alone a lower one. I'd take it over an RX-8 or even a new RX-7 even if the prices were equal. I looooove sport compacts, always have, from the days of my first car (a beautiful but sadly cursed 1981 Toyota Corolla Sport Hardtop -- I miss her soo much *sniff*) onwards. To me the combination of sportyness in a light, fun, yet practical package is ideal. Of the cars out there, the RX-8 comes closest to this ideal balance but it is too large, too heavy, and too expensive to fit my bill. And anything as focused and inpractical as an RX-7 is not going to do it for me at -all-. I may admire a new 7 but I doubt strongly that I will ever buy one.

One thing I have to take issue with, however, is your statement that an RX-3 must or even should be a sedan. To me, I say absolutely NOT. What would the difference be then between it and a Mazdaspeed Protege? More horsepower and RWD? Great, you just made the MSP useless. Congratulations. Instead, I feel the RX-3 should fill a slot that the MSP does not, which is the long-missing two-door compact. Others make them, and they sell well. I have always loved the two-door compact configuration, it allows me to have a back seat when I need it (which is occasionally enough to want it to be there but not often enough I want the sacrifices of a four-door). I don't want the extra weight, I don't want the extra length, and I don't want the look of a four-door family car. Two doors makes a statement that the car is meant to be sporty and fun, and I want my car to make that statement.

I think the ideal model for the RX-3 would be the late MX-3, a car that looked great, was a ton of fun but failed to sell well because it was abysmally underpowered. I mean come on, 88 HP in 4-cyl and only 130 with a V6??? What was that? I think a lot of people who would have otherwise loved it passed because of the low HP ratings. I mean come on, when the top of the line Protege of it's day had more HP than it did, what reason did anyone have to buy it? They bought the Protege instead, or something else that had more under the hood.

Today, however, the car has found new life in the used market and especially with the crowd that likes to pick up a car cheap and modify it. Most people switch engines to the Protege LX of that year (why it never had that engine in the first place I'll never know), sometimes go for some boost, and viola they have the car that Mazda should have put out in the first place and have lots of fun with it. I see quite a few of them still on the road, still popular, and I wouldn't mind picking one up myself.

My only problem with it is it is FWD, and like all aging cars will eventually begin to wear out and cost a lot to maintain. With a rotary-powered, RWD configuration under the hood, the MX-3 stylings and overall feel, and a price point that puts serious competition on things like the Sentra and Neon sport compacts, it could be a sure-fire winner. Even things like the WRX and Accura sport compact would be in trouble.

I hope Mazda is listening. A four-door, FWD Protege wannabe would be pointless. Give us a sport compact that isn't afraid to look and drive like a sports car, like the MX-3 was. With rotary power, the HP issue won't be a problem and the car will sell like it should have in the first place. And I'll be right there in line to buy one.

Any other MX-3 fans out there? Give a shout back if you want a new rotary 3.
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
you missed the point. Protege & RX-3 would be essential the same base car, except the RX-3 would be tweeked to heck & back.
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subject:
Missing Point
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Sorry, last post blew up. (Admin, can you delete it?)

"The turbo rotary blew up all the time"...talking out your arse dude.

No I'm not. I have TWO FD's, including a near-perfect CYM. I also own an FB race car and an RX-5 (1976). Whenever I talk to people who don't KNOW Mazda's (RX-7's in particular), they are OFTEN under the impression that rotaries are unreliable. The FD, while being my favorite car bar none, earned that reputation by routinely blowing motors at 90k miles. Even Sport Compact Car has called the FD a "grenade" many times while giving it endless praise as a "pure" sports car. My daily-driver blew at just over 80K. I accept that's the price I pay for having a stark-raving-mad performance machine.

Even the series 4 (second gen) turbo RX7 would do around 200,000 km before expiring

Not many people like the series 4. ;-) Me included. Not nearly as rabid a following as the FB and FD (I'm rabid about both! ;)

Offer a RX3 for $30,000-$40,000 and now we are talking!

Agreed, but they have to make cars that LOTS of people will buy first, not just stuff that speed nuts like us will buy. That's critical the Mazda's long-term survival, and their ability to make cool rotary cars that you and I will buy.
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Yes, it will return. I have good sources from Ford Motor Co. in Detroit HQ that know the seven will return. Look for a 270-290 HP rotary. Don't know if it will be supercharged or not.
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
yeah after rereading what I wrote, it looks a little stupid. I guess I didn't realize how likely a new RX-3 would be! Thanks for the clarification.
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
This design is very well proportioned, although not as bold overall, as the RX-8. Preserving the RX-8 roofline and window shape is a nice touch, too. All in all, it looks good, but I still need 4 seats!
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subject:
Shape up or ship out!
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Great, another Rx7...Thats fine and dandy, but if Ford/Mazda doesnt get there act together Its sure to fail and the exsecutive will blame their failure on the Rotary engine etc. Ford came aboard in 1995 and never gave the Rx7 a chance so they decided to stop importing the wonder car. Killing the most fastest, and fun car to drive in that era. How stupid could they be... Now they have a new rotary (Rx8) and nobody from the new consuming public knows anything about the thing... The new generation has no respect for the Rotary because of Fords big mistake back in 1995....

Now almost ten years later with all these new turbo charged all wheelers with lots of horses killing the compitition, Ford comes out with the new Rx8 that has poor design and a go cart engine. Do they think that the new american generation is so stupid with everything so high tech these days.. Do they really think they are going to make an impact on the market with that slow poke Rx8... They are doing it again, Cutting corners with the Rx8 is giving the Rotary a bad reputation...

So when they launch the new Rx7 just the name alone is one less than the Rx8 and no matter how great the car turns out, The cunsumer wont want anything to do with it... Resulting in failure and soon to follow the extinction of the Rotary engine .....
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subject:
Shape up or ship out!
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Great, another Rx7...Thats fine and dandy, but if Ford/Mazda doesnt get there act together Its sure to fail and the exsecutive will blame their failure on the Rotary engine etc. Ford came aboard in 1995 and never gave the Rx7 a chance so they decided to stop importing the wonder car. Killing the most fastest, and fun car to drive in that era. How stupid could they be... Now they have a new rotary (Rx8) and nobody from the new consuming public knows anything about the thing... The new generation has no respect for the Rotary because of Fords big mistake back in 1995....

Now almost ten years later with all these new turbo charged all wheelers with lots of horses killing the compitition, Ford comes out with the new Rx8 that has poor design and a go cart engine. Do they think that the new american generation is so stupid with everything so high tech these days.. Do they really think they are going to make an impact on the market with that slow poke Rx8... They are doing it again, Cutting corners with the Rx8 is giving the Rotary a bad reputation...

So when they launch the new Rx7 just the name alone is one less than the Rx8 and no matter how great the car turns out, The cunsumer wont want anything to do with it... Resulting in failure and soon to follow the extinction of the Rotary engine .....
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subject:
RX-3 for me!
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I believe their is a larger market for the RX-3 versus the RX-8! Has anyone gone to Hot Import Nights, or any of the big car shows? 90% of the cars are small compacts driven by high school or young college students. Most of them can only afford cars $19,000 and under, hence the reason [with many others] why Civics are so popular.

I'd like to see some competition for the Civic Si. I'm not a fan of the hatch, I preferred the coupe Si... I digress. If anyone has noticed a lot of the big car companies are taking action in the growing sport compact market. Toyota's Scion division is launching their supercharged coupe named tC. GM's answer is the Cobalt. The list is just getting longer and longer, and it'd be a shame for Mazda to miss great opportunity. More importantly I think they'll miss the opportunity [as others have mentioned] for Mazda to introduce the rotary engine to the younger generation. It would be myopic of Mazda and Ford to think otherwise.

Mazda please bring the RX-3 as a coupe with 190hp, 6-speed and make it $19k
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