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New Mazda Rotary Vehicles: RotaryNews predictions and speculation
Submitted by SuperUser on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 10:11pm

It has been rumored that Mazda would like to develop several Rotary powered vehicles to spread Rotary power across their product line. This would take advantage of and spread development cost of the RENESIS motor across a greater spectrum of cars. All these rumors and our wishful thinking, got RotaryNews speculating and predicting the future of the RENESIS motor and it's uses in different Mazda vehicles/platforms. RN recalls a time when Rotary power was available in a variety of vehicles, and we came up with some ideas based on rumors, lies and even a little fact. The fact that Mazda is really good at the front engine/rear wheel drive combination, like RX's and the Miata, and that the Rotary engine is well suited for this application, led us to some of the following conclusions: A new RX-3 Mazda might/could develop a lightweight, low price point, entry level, compact vehicle that would take advantage, of the RENESIS' newfound emissions and mileage standards. The vehicle could be made in the spirit of the RX-3 Coupe and would break away from the now all-consuming front-wheel drive entry level platforms of the market today. The car could be powered by a lower horsepower (160hp-180hp) version of the RENESIS that is easily tunable for higher horsepower, if so desired by new owners. This would hold price point and the ever-important CAF' emissions and mileage standards of the class. We feel that such a car should be priced in the 16K to 18K price range, to expose a whole new generation of young people to Rotary power. This would give Mazda a very unique vehicle for the entry market, which would definitely attract enthusiast of all types to its product line. What do you guys think of reviving the RX-3 name? It would definitely be cool to have a 'NEW' RX-3!! The new RX-7 The new RX-7 has been confirmed as 'coming soon', by a lot of industry folks and automotive publications. We cannot confirm this, but RN does know that a product has been developed and is being considered for production, but there are no firm production plans yet. But, based on our limited information and insight, gathered at a few press events and talking to industry people, here are a few predictions and thoughts on the new RX-7.

  • Larger displacement RENESIS motor with possible forced induction.
  • 300+hp regardless of the motor being N/A or turbo/super charged.
  • Lightweight (less than 2800lbs)
  • Extremely high handling limits
  • Unique styling and design
  • No compromises
Mazda understands that any new vehicle carrying the RX-7 moniker will have live up to the 3rd generation FD RX-7. We have actually been told as much by key Mazda people. They understand all of the shortcomings, and more importantly, the streghtens of the FD, and will/have addressed and/or improved on them, as to not make the same mistakes twice. The new RX-7 will be a car designed and built with the spirit of the FD, through and through! The RX-8 All we can say here is: MazdaSpeed-8! We hear that a blown version of the car is in the works as we write. No confirmation of this going into production, but the car should just plain rock! The concept has already been shown at the Tokyo Auto-Saloon, and with a little boost from a turbo or super charger, watch out! Rotary Truck One can only wish! However, there is no light weight 2x4 mini-trucks on the market right now that packs a punch. The REPU from the 70s was the origional "pickup with pickup." The B3000/Ranger have moved up-market, and have been up-sized, leaving room for a mini-truck with the RENESIS for those that needs the utility of a pickup, with Mazda's DNA, and the RENESIS. The future for the Rotary engine looks real bright at Mazda right now, and we hope that some of our thoughts, ideas and predictions, get you all thinking, the same way it did us. We'd love to hear what you all enthusiasts think of these ideas and predictions. They are really not as far fetched, as they might seem. Mazda is a car company looking to break away from the pack and we the enthusiasts, stand to win big! Please leave us your comments and input. We know Mazda is listening!

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subject:
rx-3
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I would like to see a rx-3 platform with sedan and coupe models with the availability of AWD. I think that price is very important and should compete with the civic. Everytime I talk with a buddy of mine that races his Honda, he brags about how fast it is. This may be true, but when I ask him about burnouts, getting sideways, things like that, he doesn't have much to say. As fuel prices increase, mileage will always be an issue. I would also hate to see Mazda get a bad rap for producing rotary engine vehicles that are not reliable. I keep thinking of the mistake of putting those worthless finned oil coolers in the 1st gen rx-7 I keep dreaming of finding a good rx-3 to buy, but they are so hard to find, and I think that there are a lot of others that feel the same. Thank God for a breakthrough in rotary engine development! Keep up the good work Mazda, as I will keep the faith.
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subject:
renesis
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I think Mazda should produce one renesis engine for all needs. If Mazda developed a normally aspirated engine to develop 280ps (276HP)US and equiped the engine with the most stringent emmisions standards from all the countries which is probably the U.S. anyway, Mazda would be able to mass produce the same engine and accesories to be more cost effective and have a great product. Mazda should produce a slightly larger 2 rotor (14C) normally aspirated with peak power of 276@ 8500rpm and peak torque of around 200 @ 7000 with a redline around the 9500rpm range. Use this engine for the revised Rx8, a new Rx7 and possibly a convertible version of either the Rx8 or Rx7. That would be three cars based off of similar platforms and engine drivetrain layouts and none of these would compete against each other or Mazdas exsisting lineup. The engine would be 100lbs lighter than the engine from the FD so that the new Rx7 should be able to be almost 100lbs lighter than the third gen Rx7. What do you think? A 2700lb forth generation Rx7 with 275HP and 200lbs of torque with a six speed manual tranny. The lighter weight combined with the six speed should make up for slightly less torque. Not to mention improved handling with the lighter weight. Reliability is kept up and costs kept down by keeping the engine normally aspirated. I'm thinking of quarter mile times around 13.5 @ 103mph and 0-60 in 4.9sec with a top speed of 170mph. The forth gen Rx7should have a minimal frontal area with a coefficient of drag of .29 or less. This will help ensure the top speed and less wind noise.
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subject:
14c
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
i think 200 ft/lbs of torque would be a little low for a 14c, remember as you increase displacement torque increases in not such a linear form. i'd say at least 230 ft lbs of torque.

I'd like to see the rx7 hit the 300 hp mark, remember the 1999 rx7's had over 280 hp so if were going to see a performance increase we'd wan't to at least hit 300. but hell why stop there!!!??
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subject:
freshman at the university of michigan ann arbor
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
i would definitely love to see an rx-3. i love small cars and would wow at the sight of a small 2+2 with a rotary. I don't think people would even think about buying a civic si or dodge srt-4 if there was a rotary in the class. and i assume the renesis would be fitted with a RWD drivetrain?

mazda, please build this car. I'll buy it.
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subject:
RX3
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I think a lower priced entry level sedan powered by the renesis is a great idea. Revive the RX3 name and have it compete with the other compact sedans in the market, and intoduce the rotary to a whole new price segment with greater sales potential. I also think there's potential for a single rotor renesis. With half the displacement you'll still have 125 HP, better fuel economy, and a lighter weight package to make up for the smaller displacement. Just an idea, it might work.
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subject:
Ready and waiting!
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
If Mazda were to make a new RX3, I'd be the first person to walk through the doors to buy one..or two..or three. As long as the design is not too different from the original version. It would have to look something like an RX3 or it wouldn't be an RX3 except for the name. Colours would have to be the same as they were back then, and maybe more. The Renesis would have to play a big part, and all the options imaginable. Along with a affordable price and rear wheel drive, Mazda would be..ahem.. is the king of the road. If they make more cars like the RX7, RX8 and Mazda 6 they will do very well. Keeping in mind the price has to be right! RX3 GT,SP, Savanna and Super Delux badging would be a sight for sore eyes. A futuristic design with some old skool touches is what I'd love to see. MAZDA PLEASE BUILD THE RX3. I don't want to sound too greedy, but the R100, RX2 and RX4 would be nice too. ROTARIES FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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subject:
Rotary Engine Enthusiast
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I would love to see in production a small Renesis Rotary Engine/Electric motor (with self-charging batteries) Hybrid powered mordern designed RX-3.
Very aerodynamically designed body, Low center of gravity, and 50/50 weight distribution setup.
I'll bet that car's sales would be tremendously high numerically.
What do you think. I Know that I would buy one.
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
A hybrid engine with a rotary for the internal combustion segment is a great idea... It would be more simplistic than any other hybrid out yet, and the electric motor could provide tremendous amounts of torque.

As for keeping the RX-3 design similar to what it used to be (something most car companies don't do), the only car that really comes to mind is the Cooper Mini. I'd love to see a retro car with up-to-date looks.
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I was really disappointed that the MX-3 was not avilable as an RX-3 with a nonturbo 13b. Mazda did all they could to duplicate the rotary with the 1.8 V-6 but If they had offered an RX-3, It would have sold. It could have been rear wheel drive or awd. Lots of people remember how much fun their RX-2's and RX-3's were to drive and that back seat makes the car much more usable and gives people a reason to have one in the driveway.
I have three RX-7's and I have owned many 2's and 3's. My rx-7 turbo is a thill to drive but i'ts dangerous to have that kind of power available to use on the average road surrounded by the average poor driver that only gets in your way.
PLEASE!!! bring back the RX-3.
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subject:
Rx3
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Hmmmm...... I see what you're saying with a lower output Renesis for Rx3. Restrictive intake and exhaust for less power and less in$urance. Then have Mazdaspeed offer performance intake and exhaust for sale aftermarket. And the dealer has a computer EPROM Flash for performance timing and fuel delivery. Make the Rx3 scream!

While we're at it, I would hope Mazdaspeed would offer a good smog legal CARB certified turbo and intercooler kit for the Renesis so the peoples with $ can get the performance they want.

Brad
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subject:
RX-3... Bring it ON!!
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
The whole concept of another RX-3 is extremely enticing to myself and other rotary enthusiasts here in Arizona. The price point would have to be under $20K (under $18K would be better) with the car marketed towards the youth market. Young people love to be different. Can you imagine how many kids would buy one just to be different from their Honda friends?? Keep the car extremely lightweight (under 2500 lbs), provide a back seat and excellent handing. It needs to be similar in profile to the Protoge. Actually, I'm kind of suprised that Mazda didn't take this approach with a Renesis offering BEFORE RX-8 introduction? It's all about regaining confidence in rotary power and rotary reliability. Kids need something that is fairly bulletproof from a modification standpoint and the N/A Renesis should help this cause. Time will tell, but it's an exciting time to be a rotary owner!!
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
In this day and age of coporate arrogance and blunders of epoch proportions, it's refreshing to see some thoughtful logic going into marketing rotary powered autos. Maybe this really is a "Reneisis Rising". The possibilities have something else rising - you know what I mean!
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
How do you find out that Mazda might/could develop a lightweight sport coupe "RX-3"? Is this true? or just a rumor?
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subject:
"Agree too":
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
From the way I view things Ford gave Mazda the thumbs up to go ahead with Rotary development and our soon available RX8 and for that ,THANK YOU. Look at Fords soon available SVT Lightening Pick-up and they promise to better Dodges entry with the viper motor truck read 500 four times. These times are very different from 10 years back
when GMC had the syclone .
Tim
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I have a deposite for a brand new RX3 right here right now..

bring back the mazda range sweet ......8)
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
That RX-3 would be very feasible. Look at the body from the lights back, pure Protege(with RWD).
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
NOW, Ford has OK'd the rotary engine. Remember that they halted the RX-8 back in the 90s. They set a firm ultimatum for Mazda with the 8. Must be 4 door, NA, and have at least 240HP. They didn't think it was possible from the company that made the 626 and (at that time) the Protege. Now, Mazda has it's act together and has returned to it's roots(handling).
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
What about the cosmo?
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subject:
RotaryNews guy
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
All we can say for now is that this is a "true rumor"

As for how we find out things... that's still a big secret.

Berny
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subject:
rx3
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
bring back the entry level rx3. We desperately need an entry level pocket rocket with rotary power. The engine is made for a small car!
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Why hasn't anybody mentioned the R-100?
I owned a 1971 Rx2, a 1972 Rx3, a 1974 Rx4, a 1970 R-100, and 3 series one Rx7's, a 1979, a 1980, and a 1985 GSL-SE. If I was asked to rank them in order of preference it would go like this:
'70 R-100
'85 Rx7 GSL-SE
'72 Rx3
'74 Rx4
'79 Rx7
'80 Rx7
'71 Rx2
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subject:
Piece of Shit
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Nobody cares about that ugly big ass boat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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subject:
BRING it on
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I think bringing the RX-3 back would be one of the greatest things mazda could do. I mean think about it. When the rotaries first came to america they worent too popular but then again its still not too popular here but if you bring the name RX-3 back this might remind the older auto owners of those powerful little cars. This in other ways might make alot of people more interested in the Rotary world. Specialy if the car is affordable and with a nice amount of horsepower it would be beautiful. BRING IT. I have my 1984 RX-7 that to me I wouldnt change for anything in the world. My car has a 12a street ported,with a holly 600,with intake,MSD's, Bronze Clutch, Racing Beat pressure plate built by one of the best rotary builders in the world right now.(Carlos Gonzales) lives in Dunnellon FL, his shop is in ocala FL called GT welding. If you want to get your rotary worked on hes the man to get a hold of. He also has an rx-3 he built for drag racing that runs like a dream.

Thanks
Joel T.
New York
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Where do I start? Well, first I'd like to say that there have been lots of good decisions coming out of Mazda lately. The future of the rotary engine looks good now thanks to their work. I can't thank them enough!

Exposure of the rotary engine to today's car buyer should be handled in a careful way. I'm no expert at marketing, but the Mazda 6 seems to be going over well. But how to expose the RX-8 in comercials to the public? For word of mouth, I'm too close to the material myself to give an ubiased opinion about rotaries. "I love them," is the message that comes through loud and clear.

I'd truely like to see rotary engines in everything. I believe that was one of the original goals; to replace piston engines across the board. Although the pre RX-7 rotary cars were offered with piston engine variants, and did sell, the rotary cars still live on and are remembered. They left their marque, er mark.

Having stated that, I'd like Mazda to build a new RX-3, RX-7, and especially a new REPU. I own a '74 REPU. A buddy of mine has had them since '90 and wouldn't drive any other truck (except maybe a 4x4- now there's a thought, wink-wink hehe).

The stock HP and torque of the original REPU was something like 135HP and 110lbft right? It was powerful enough to blow away anything without a V8, and even then it held its own. The Renesis was tweaked for 160lbft with a very wide flat curve to be an all around performer. This alone makes me want to purchase a crate engine Renesis for my REPU and leave all the ECU governors in place. However, a new REPU would be quite a bit better, since the handiling and brakes would obviously have improved some since disc brakes first came out on a mini truck back in '74 (imrovements in the original REPU over the B1600/Courier etc). The tunability with EPROM chips simply sweetens the deal (can you say more torque?). The stock HP of around 250 or whatever it's set at and the much improved gas mileage just make me say YES!

The original REPU was based on the B1600 chassis with a wider frame, wider axle shafts, even wider front track, fender flares, improved interior etc etc etc. This same treatment can be applied to an existing chassis like the current boring B series pickups, just like they did back in the '70s to spice them up. However, there are still some out there who think a rotary powered truck is a bad idea, no matter what. That's just crazy. Heck, I'd like to see a front wheel drive rotary. If it puts more rotaries on the street, and stomps the competition in more classes, what could be so wrong with that? Market saturation perhaps? With only one car company providing the cars (and more importantly the unique engines), I don't think that's even possible. But I guess we'll see how the RX-8 does in sales and public opinion.

Also, I'd like to say that a new rear wheel drive RX-3 is needed in the market right now. A new rotary powered truck could also find a home in the market, but it would need a decent amount of torque to compete with and beat the same types competition as back then. That's reasonable, I think.

A 4th gen RX-7? A rotary option for the Miata? These are my dreams as well.

The Renesis concept is bulletproof. It can be built upon. It should be able to fit in most platforms. I, for one, love the 20B and wholeheartedly hope Mazda will push the Renesis envelope further and build a 3 rotor version for use not only in a new REPU, but some sort of SUV (ew, but if it helps sales, sure), and absolutely in a new RX-7 and rotary Miata. I also like the 14C idea of widening the rotors another 10mm like from 10A to 12A, 12A to 13B etc. But don't let it interfere with research into a 3 rotor Renesis. Single rotor 80mm and 90mm engines could find homes in a variety of machines and vehicles, from VW bugs to boats to aircompressors. Moller's Freedom Motors Rotapower 530 twin is really cool, but I don't know of anyone who actually has one under their hood. Mazda's rotaries however, are fairly plentiful in my neck of the woods (I'm lucky). I'd like see more.

C'mon Mazda, you've got a winner here. Don't make me come over there and help you install apex seals and tension bolts! :)

PS. Put a 3 rotor Renensis in a next generation Cosmo too. You know you want to (sorry, I couldn't resist). ;)
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subject:
Mazda and new Rotary technology
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I think Mazda would do very, very well to make an update of the RX-3 in addition to the now in production RX-8 and the "in the design stage" new generation RX-7.

The Rotary is Mazda's history, and I believe Mazda's path to success and the future of automobiles is to embrace the RCE. It is what sets Mazda apart from the many, many other automakers out there. With more investment in the development of the RCE, I think it can be extremely competitive with piston engined cars, especially in any performance segment.

An RX-3 would be excellent if it was designed to be lightweight, inexpensive (less than Civic SI), and stylish. Of course there would need to be some cues as to the RX-3's history in the styling, but the car also needs to be moved forward, not to be tied to the past design 100%.

An inexpensive, sporty, RWD wagon or sedan would be an excellent starting point to bring new blood into the world of the rotary.
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