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RX-8 Driving Impression, Part II
Submitted by SuperUser on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 3:04pm

COMPROMISE: just the sound of the word conjures up negativity and the need for one to give up something. Why did Mazda have to compromise on the '8'? I know things like broader consumer appeal, the need for expanded sales and blah, blah, blah, were offered up as reasons, but as Rotary enthusiast, this stuff didnít matter to us! What thousands of Rotorheads and I want/ed, was a balls-out, full on frontal assault on the likes of the 350Z and NSX. Something, which would finally show the world the dominance of the Little-Engine-That-Could. A return to 1991 LeMans glory, the 80ís IMSA dominance or the mighty FD conquering the brutal Bathurst 24 hour race for successive years during the 90ís, was/is our dream. Something, anything, we could be proud of. We as enthusiast and racers had upheld the Rotary banner for years, without factory support, and now we felt it was Mazdaís turn. Instead we got, a compromise, we got the RX-8. At first this didnít sit well, with me, or most any other RE enthusiast out there. How could Mazda do this to us, we asked? Where is the mighty RX-7? As time went by though, the RX-8 became more attractive to us. It kind-of grew on us. Maybe this compromise wasnít so bad after all. Maybe we still had a chance. As the final specs started to trickle out and make there way into the public domain, things started to look brighter. Still, the words doubt and compromise kept dancing in my head, glaring and taunting me. Would I have to compromise my review if the RX-8 really sucked? Would I write the truth about a bad RX-8 and maybe single handily destroy the future of the Rotary engine in America? These were the things that ran through my mind, that restless night before the big day. Dan and I had finally made it to the big day; we would finally either, put all doubts to rest, or confirm our worst fears and suspicions, on Mazdaís compromise. Thankfully, all doubts were washed away, as soon as we entered the paddock at Laguna Seca, that beautiful sunny morning, last week. There they were, a fleet of RX-8ís, purposeful and elegant, beckoning to be driven. I couldnít wait to jump out of the shuttle and into one. The '8' finally looked right! I had seen several versions of the car at shows, indoors, but in an outdoor setting, especially at this racetrack, the car finally spoke to me. It was a different creature under the sun; dare I say it actually looked Sports Car like. Was I getting sucked into Mazdaís marketing spin, did I actually believe that? 'Is the RX-8 a Sports Car', I asked myself. Is it a worthy successor to all of the Rotary vehicles that had come before it? I wasnít totally convinced yet, but I was about to find out. We were fortunate to be added to a group that would start the day running the autocross and finish on the big track. All of the stuff in between was just fluff. I jumped in, introduced myself to the instructor, and off we went. My absolute first impression of the car was how 'Mazda (RX-7)' it felt. The wheel, controls, shifter and console all felt immediately familiar. This was a good thing! The layout of the autocross course, allowed one to run an entire lap, in 2nd gear. At first I took it easy, not wanting to be the first dork to have a spin and look bad. As lap 2 came by, I was totally comfortable with the car and I started to hammer it. The 8 just took everything I had and kept going. It pushes slightly if driven to hot into a turn, but it will allow you to stay on the throttle hard. If you do get it all out of the shape, which you can do to some degree, the traction control (DSC) cuts in, straightens you out and you just keep going. It was amazing at how hard one could push the 8 without it biting back. The brakes showed absolutely no fade, but this was on a 2nd gear only, autocross course, wait Ďtil I get on the big track. On the autocross course, the 8 was extremely predictable, no real drama to speak of, just a lot of good old fashion get-up-and-go. The most significant impression I got after our short stint was, how FUN this car was to drive! I did have a few serious observations though. The car did push (understeered) a little more than I expected it to and the steering was just a tad less edgy, I would almost gander to say, slower than that of an FD, but very linear and with good road feel. The engineers I spoke to said, that this was true, as the car had to appeal to a broader audience (hereís that compromise thing again). The brief, but impressive time on the autocross course said: Round 1 to the 8. I was impressed. Just before we did the autocross course exercise, we had a chance to sample the BOSE Premium sound system. This is a nine-speaker system that offered very high quality audio reproduction. I was impressed, by the very tight mid and low range, offered by the systems. A center mounted front speaker gave true center stage impression. Voice reproduction sounded natural and clear. High frequency reproduction was crisp without sounding tinny or annoying. I am by no means an audiophile, but I think this high-end system will satisfy 90% of all RX-8 shoppers. The main problem I see for those wanting to upgrade to an aftermarket system is, the use of a non-standard stereo console. Iím sure the audio aftermarket will come up with some kind of adapter, but it is an unnecessary inconvenience. A big plus on the side of the 8 is, itís extremely quiet cabin. Even at speed, there is very little wind or road noise intrusion into interior. Unfortunately for those of us who enjoy the roar of the Rotary, the 8 might disappoint some. But, this is nothing a good aftermarket exhaust wonít fix though. The quiet in the cabin was a very pleasant surprise and Iím sure a feature the audiophiles out there will appreciate. After the autocross, we had a chance to move into several different press informational sessions. On the program were, Chassis, Safety and Engine show-and-tells. All of the major information given at these sessions is available in the Mazda RX-8 Press Kit, available elsewhere on this site for download. I will comment a bit on the Engine portion though. This was the first time I had opportunity to study a Production RENESIS up close and personal. Mazda made available, a completely disassembled RENESIS for the press to handle. The RENESIS Engineer finalized his presentation and asked for questions. A blank stare greeted him from most of the other journalist in the room. We could tell they hadnít understood much of the new Rotary technology or even the Rotary in general. We sat quietly, until one of the press said, 'go ahead, we know you guys have some questions.' I excused myself to the group for the technical questions, I was about to ask, that I knew they wouldnít understand, and I started in. Obviously, one of my first inquiries was about porting the RENESIS. The motor will be able to be ported, but great care will have to be taken when grinding on the housing. Mazda has gone to great lengths to work with airflow and fuel atomization. There is a third injector per rotor sticking right in the intake port, as it enters the housing, which will have to be dealt with when cleaning up and porting the housings (see press kit information). Both the intake and exhaust ports can be cleaned up some and used for further power development in the new motor. The interesting thing is; the engineers said that doing a little port work down on both ports, might actually make a bigger difference in power than porting up, in a traditional manner. The RENESISí rotors are definitely lighter than previous Mazda rotaries. When picking them up, one can actually feel a big difference. Another question, that actually took me a drawing before the engineer understood, was did the 6-port sleeves have a radius in them to help smooth the air/fuel charge transition into the combustion chamber? The answer was a very pleasant; yes they do. The Engineer was actually quite surprised at our technical line of questioning, but he had been warned about the two Rotorheads who might be crashing the party. The time in the engine session flew by quick and soon they were booting us out of the room. We hadnít noticed everyone else had been gone for a while, and they were waiting for us. Side note here: Almost all of my engine questions were under the assumption of Motorsport usage and didnít take into account emissions and such. Overall though, the RENESIS is still a Rotary and Iím sure we are going to start seeing the Race and Aftermarket communities have it soon. Can you imagine, a 12000RPM RENESIS street motor, nice! Oh yea, before I forget, the engineer did mention one more important thing; the motor was built to take boost! The time had come; time to get out on the big track at Laguna. We were allowed to go as fast and hard as we wanted, no real restrictions. We need only follow the instructor and catch him if we could. The instructors were driving Mazda-6, six-cylinder engine with 5-speed transmissions. A very well balanced and torquey car in itís own right. Unfortunately, we were required to drive right-hand drive RX-8 import models. This wasnít really a big hindrance, but you did have to think about your shifts. It really helped that the pedal placement felt perfect and the steering wheel and shifter felt very natural. The gauge cluster was also very accommodating, with all gauges being clearly visible and offering up good lighting. I snick the car in gear and away I went. I went out wanting to feel the car out slowly at first. I accelerated briskly out of the pits and settled into a comfortable pace. I actually left the car in 4th gear for the first lap and half. I wanted to see how flexible the RENESIS was. Though the acceleration out the slow corners was, well, slow, but the engine never balked. It would pick-up revs slowly at first, but once past 3500RPM, it pulled really strong and quick, trying to chase itís redline. The next few laps I ran the car in 3rd. Now this was eye opening. The 8 can actually run a decent lap around Laguna in 3rd gear. Still a tad bit slow out of the last turn (turn 11) but, not bad. The willingness of the RENESIS to rev really stood out here. I could go down the whole front straight and just touch redline, very close to the hairpin turn on the other side of the straight. I started my last few laps pushing hard. I was actually now starting to use 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears. The tranny shifted smoothly, with positive and quick throws. The car really came alive. Knowing that I had more car than the instructor but, a lot less talent, I mean a lot less, I let the 8 do itís magic. By the end of my last few laps, I was out-braking the instructor and really pushing him. The 6 in front of me, was under-steering hard as the instructor pushed the car deeper into the corners. I let the 8 follow him as fast I dared, knowing that if something went wrong the DSC would pull me out. I did push too hard into turn 4 once and the car got fully half way off the track; two wheels dirt tracking. As I directed the car back onto the tarmac, I felt the rear coming around, but I didnít lift. Instead, I kept my foot buried. In a RX-7, I certainly wouldíve spun, but the 8 activated its DSC, got me back under control and straight and we just kept going. Nice, I thought to myself, as I caught my breath. The last lap had come to soon and the fun was over before I knew it. My track thoughts: I was amazed at the high limit this car exhibited on street tires. The 8, is definitely a momentum car. It's very similar to the Miata, in this respect. Can someone say "R-Compound" tires? Keep the cornering speed and momentum up, be as smooth as possible, and this car will reward big time. The 8 did suffer from a lack of low-end torque at times, but itís very flexible rev range and high cornering speed capability made most of the lack of torque up. Iím not saying that a little boost wouldnít help here though! Turn the DSC off, go get yourself some driving instruction and wait for aftermarket to offer a little more kick-in the-pants and youíll have an awesome weekend track car that can still pull daily driving duty. Round 2 to the 8. The real world was calling and we were off to find out what it had to say. Mazda couldn't have picked a better road or weather to let us test the 8. The world famous Highway 1, would be our test bed to determine the true road manners of this, the latest road going Rotary vehicle on earth. Dan and I paired up in one car with Dan taking first turn at the wheel. As a passenger, I felt completely comfortable in the right seat. Legroom and foot box space is excellent. The seat is as comfortable and supportive as the one on the driverís side, and even during spirited driving no real issues presented themselves. The ride as a passenger was comfortable and pleasant. This bodes well for those that regularly ride with there significant others. The back seats are also quite comfortable and accommodating. Some folks have reported them too be cramped but, I think this is more a function of the enclosed area. The small window and enclosed space in the back of the 8 conspire to create this illusion. I wouldnít call it, SUV or a full sedan space back there, but in no means is it the typical 2+2 configuration, which only pays homage to rear seating. The miles passed and it was my turn to drive the 8 on the road. The open road is where this car shines. The ride is controlled but never harsh. No thumping, banging or any other unruly road manners malign this car. For those of us accustomed to our 7's, the 8 is down right cushy. This characteristic is deceiving though, as speed, comfort and control blend seamlessly in the 8. One could drive this car for hours on end, at speed, and not fatigue. The stop and go grind might be a little different though. As typical with most of our Rotaries, the motor has to be revved and the clutch slightly slipped, to get a nice brisk launch. Fortunately, the quick revving RENESIS makes this procedure quite an easy chore. But, will Joe-Q-public appreciate this most typical of Rotary N/A traits? I sure hope so. Again the 8 scores! Round 3 to the 8. For all of the comments that have been floated about the interior and materials quality, I paid particular attention to this area. I personally didnít notice many negative issues of it while riding in the passenger seat of the 8. The surfaces all seem of high quality material and well put together. The mix of textures and colors did catch my eye. It might not be everyoneís cup of tea, but not too bad, especially in this age of overly plastic interiors from other Japanese, and surprisingly, European manufacturers. The interior does have a very Japanese influence and feel to it though. For those who have been exposed to Japanese culture or have visited Japan, you will understand. The fine lacquered surfaces remind of fine Japanese Bento Boxes. The mix of modern and organic shapes that abound in the cabin, also reminded me of modern Japanese culture. Itís definitely not a Bentley, fine Connelly leather swathed, luxury cabin or even a McClaren carbon-fiberíd cacoon, but it really doesnít disappoint. In this world of ours, there are many compromises: some for the good, and some for the bad. It is often said; you win some, you lose some. Mazdaís compromise on the RX-8 is certainly one in which the Rotary enthusiast can say; 'this was for the good and we might have won one here.' The RX-8 is poised to open the Rotary horizon to many non-wankel converts, thus allowing Mazda to continue to bring us vehicles, with this most unique form of internal combustion. Is the RX-8 the car all hardcore Rotary enthusiasts wanted and pleaded for? The obvious answer is, no. But, Mazda has taken a very big step, in getting back some of that respectability that, all of us Rotorheads crave. The RX-8 is surely one compromise that I, and many others, will be happy to live with, especially, if it gets us our beloved 7 back. Iíve included a few of my quick notes, for you guys to glance at.

  1. RENESIS
    • quick revving
    • ultra smooth / not a hint of vibration
    • power band 3800rpm-9200rpm / not much power down low
    • extremely flexible
    • needs boost
    • not a hint of exhaust smell or smoke to be found. Amazing!
    • poor service accessibility / less of an issues than FD though
  2. Chassis
    • extremely stable
    • forgiving
    • tight / no shakes or vibrations noticeable
    • understeer / aftermarket fix
    • minimal roll
    • OEM tires work good
    • Brakes
    • fade free / strong
    • great pedal feel and modulation
    • ABS non intrusive and transparent / very slight pedal throb
  3. Traction Control
    • non intrusive until needed
    • aggressive cut when fully engaged
    • can save your butt
    • should be turned off for motorsports use
  4. Styling
    • elegant and purposeful
    • sporting
    • Mazda cues really shine through with extended exposure
    • Better looking on the road (outdoors) than standing still
    • Nice color availability / US should get white car though
  5. Interior
    • well proportioned
    • roomy / for a sports vehicle
    • nice gauge cluster / very visible
    • small AC control status light
    • good trunk space
Final thoughts: The RX-8 is not a replacement for an SUV, sport sedan or even a true sports car. If I had small kids and family, that I transported regularly, I would not even consider this my primary family car. Would I sell my FD to get one? Not a chance! The 8 shines through as exactly what Mazda touts it to be; a car that is sporty in design and function, while still transporting 4 full sized adults comfortably. Is it a sports car? Well, if it talks like a duck, acts like a duck, but doesnít look like a duck... What might it be? Youíll have to make up your own minds. Get out and test drive one; youíll be pleasantly surprised.

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subject:
Consultant
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
When I attempt to read the articles, I get a page which says, Sorry, This page is not available. What is the problem?
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Wow great article. Thanks guys. And I like the idea about the 12000 rpm renesis ... nice! I'm glad it's meant to take boose ;)
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
sorry that's supposed to be boost
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Unknown... the articles appear correctly on IE, Netscape, Mozilla, Konqueror. What web browser are you using?
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Benny,
Great writeup! It's much appreciated. I've already asked Dan a couple of questions, but got no answers, so maybe you can help. See below:
"Dan,
Thanks for your Laguna driving impressions, and all the photos. You indicate that all the colors you saw looked good. That is somewhat comforting, but I'm still concerned. In the pictures you posted of the yellow car, it appeared to be much less vivid and exciting than any of of the photos shown in the magazine articles published in the past year. I'm hoping it's just a color balance problem on the posted photos, rather than a significant change in the actual production color. Can you comment? And maybe you could reference this yellow to another current production vehicle color, Mazda or other.

You also mentioned that there was a significant wheel hop with agressive launches (above 5000 RPM.) Did the Mazda people answer your questions about this problem or indicate they would be working on a solution? Or tell you to try 8000?"
TIA. BK
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
thank bern! well worth the wait and the read! i was wondering if you could email me a copy as i can't seem to copy it into a word file to print out? why would going down with the ports be better than going up? 12000 rpms on the street! tell me it is really possible!
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
forget the email i got it. ty
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subject:
Audio
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I noticed you liked the audio system which is good. I have one question that I have been trying to get answered from Mazda. Did the Bose system come with a single disc or multi-disc changer?

Thanks,
Great review.
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subject:
sales & marketing
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
This 2 piece article should be the basis for a marketing campaign for this car. The real smell flavor and taste of this car translates very well with these two word-smiths.

As an Executive Chef I know how complex a task it is to translate raw material or data into a word picture that will interest people.

PFR
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
About the colors: yes, my color ballance was off... I should have checked the settings on the Camera (side note, I like this Camera, which is a Sony, but Fuji has a comperable one out now.. Fuji has always had better color control.. too bad it is too late for this article)

Wheel hop: when we got back to the track, there was other stuff that was going on, and didn't get a chance to ask them.... I just think berny doesn't know how to let off the gas to stop it :) A 3000RPM launch doesn't have the Hop.
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subject:
0-60 guessemation
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I was wondering if you could give us some more insite to the acceleration from 0-60. I am sure this hard to do with out any equipment but an estimate would be great. Also how did you like the grip in the seats was it adequate and did you have cloth or leather seats.

Thanks for your great reports.
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subject:
Printable
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I've added a printable link on the main article page. Give it a try
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Thanks for the article. The RX8 is just the "compromise" I needed to have the rotary back in my life.

Having 2 kids, my second generation rx7 just wasn't practical. The RX8 brings back the uniqueness of the rotary, the practicality of 4 seats, and performance which rivals other 2 door sports cars.

If the RX7 was coming back instead of the RX8, I would unfortunately have to pass. I think Mazda has made "the perfect compromise."
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subject:
Great write-up
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
WoW! Thanks for the great write up. I was hoping for just this kind of relative subjective feedback about just how the RX-8 ticks. Having had 5 RX-7s and driven a 3rd gen I think I'll be able to appreciate this stronger NA version of the 13B. The DSC for street use makes it just that much better. I had been anticipating reading about it in the normal mags (C&D,R&T,Automobile) - but - as you so well illustrated, they haven't a clue about rotaries - and as evidenced by their early departure - don't truly care to learn! Too bad for them... Some people just don't get it.
The only last question I have is +/- what is the 60MPH RPM, and do have an idea of speed at redline in each gear? Thanks again for the eloquent rotor-speak!
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subject:
SATISFIED
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Great article it was worth the wait, while this current rx8 may not satisfy the so called hard core rotor heads it was not intended to do so . As for the majority of the buyers i feel it will be a great , who wants to drive a car that is consistently busting your balls BEEN THERE DONE THAT. Around my age group i want a reasonably fast car that i can enjoy by myself at times but also enjoy with friends and family . fun being the key word, i dont need to prove myself to other drivers and race with them . the diference between MEDIUM AND RARE IS 6 INCHES . THINK ABOUT IT. THE FACT THAT car can be boosted is great for those that need that extra rush .NOT MUCH POWER DOWN LOW is abit off a concern .BUT AS THEY SAY TRY BEFORE YOU BUY
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subject:
Great Review!
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Berny,
Thank you for some real insight finally. I am SICK of the normal chatter from the typical car mags i.e. c/d, r/t, scc etc. In addition, I have read one too many articles on the 8 in which 40% of the discussion pertains specifically to the rear doors.
It was good to finally receive a good quality review. I have owned 6 RX-7's and have been a hardcore rotary fan evr since my first one. Your comments really hit home! I currently own a 95 RX-7 with 20095 original miles on it and was beginning to consider trading it in on the 8. Am I going to now? NO WAY.
However, like you, the 8 has really begun to grow on me. And I would love to own one as an everyday car. Mazda has definitely come a long way since the first its first introduction.
Again, great job!
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
The 0-60 times were very dificult to estimate. We did try a few runs but, we were never got a nice clean launch. I would say low 6's to high 5's are very possible. The seats are excelent in both the leather and clothe. Very supportive and comfortable. Good lateral support on the track. Of course this is our opinion of them and all body types are different, but overall I would say these are some of the best seats out there.

Berny
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Unfortunately, I didn't really pay that much attention to it. If memory serves me right though, it was a single disc unit with cassette. Maybe Dan can verify.

Berny
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subject:
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Great review!! Very indepth!

I'm really happy to hear that it's made to handle boost! On the low-end, it would be nice to use something like an oxygen-injection system into the intake hose, or turbine to give pressure once that throttle body opens up!

I have some pictures from the NAIAS that shows just what it looks like once people wear down the paint on the buttons, and around the bottom edges of the front seats where the rear passengers get in. Of course, it's because of people brutalizing it. At any rate, it does pose a little bit of a concern to me, considering that my best bet is to wait to buy one used just in case a mazdaspeed is not released.
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subject:
pics from show
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
I'd like to see the pics if you wouldn't mind emailing them to me!
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subject:
Post Pics
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
If you wouldn't mind, create something like a geocities.com account, and put the photos up there... I think we'd all be interested in how the pilot cars looked after nearly 10 years of abuse that happened in the two weeks at the show.
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subject:
How about
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
So, I thought "Tetra Sport" might work... except it sounds like packaging for fruit drinks...

Quadra Sport? Square Sport? Sport's Square? Four Sport? Practi Sport?

Maybe the "Only-an-idiot-or-somebody-who-has-never-seen-the-car-in-person-would-call-it-a-sedan" category? ( )

I'll stop now...
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subject:
redline buzzer?
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Does the 8 still have the redline buzzer like in the FC and FD?
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subject:
rpm's
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
According to Autoweek, 60mph in sixth is at 3,000 rpm.
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subject:
No title supplied
author:
No Rotor
date:
December 31, 1969 - 4:00pm
Yes the 8 had the buzzer... it comes on at 8000rpm or so, to warn that one is reaching the 9000rpm redline.
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